Thursday, August 02, 2007

Torre, young pitchers don't mix

The father of 21-year-old New York Yankees' pitching phenom Joba Chamberlain wondered out loud the other day if being brought up to help New York's beleaguered bullpen -- and thus being put within reach of Manager Joe Torre's clutches -- would risk the health of his son's arm.

"Yeah, it's exciting, but I guess my concerns at this time are more for the safety of his arm and what this does to his arm," Harlan Chamberlain told Newsday. "So I kind of feel like the jury's out for me right now. His personal welfare from a parent's perspective overshadows the baseball perspective."
Personally, I can't blame Harlan for being concerned. I love Torre and have defended him again and again during the past few seasons when many have been calling for his ouster.

Yet, when you look at this Yankees team, and the direction you see General Manager Brian Cashman trying to take the entire organization, you have to think Torre is not the right guy to lead them beyond this season.

I am glad the Yankees did not overreact and fire Torre when they were playing so badly earlier this season. He has been way too successful to be removed because of one bad stretch, or even one bad season. The Yankees are back in the race, so speculation about Torre has ended for now.

Torre is a master at handling George Steinbrenner and keeping the sharks in the Yankees Tampa offices at bay. With his four World Series rings and laid-back style he is also great at handling a clubhouse filled with high salaried players with egos to match.

So, he's not exactly Clueless Joe. He is a butcher, however, when it comes to mishandling the bullpen. He ruined Paul Quantrill and Tanyon Sturtze by using them so much they broke down, and was en route to doing the same thing to Scott Proctor before the Yankees did Proctor a favor and shipped him to the Dodgers this week. The hard-throwing righty leads major league relievers in innings over the past two seasons, and his inconsistency this season has to be related to his overuse. I doubt he could have held up under the workload much longer.

A couple of years back, journeyman reliever Buddy Groom called out Torre after going a long stretch without being used. Groom basically said that, when it comes to the bullpen there are "Joe's Guys" and "The Other Guys."

Joe's Guys, of course, get used time and time and time again whenever a game may be in doubt. The other guys only get the mop-up innings. Groom was roundly criticized for his comments, but when you look at the past few seasons he wasn't wrong.

It has been said by some that becoming one of Joe's Guys is career suicide because you get abused until you simply have nothing left to give. There is some truth to that. Torre hates to use untested pitchers if there is even the slightest chance his team can win.

Steve Goldman of the New York Sun posted a fabulous article Thursday saying that Torre is simply terrified of the unknown. Kudos to Pete, a good friend of the blog, for pointing it out to me.

Goldman put it this way.
Torre has become spectacularly inflexible in his old age. He is terrified of the new and untested, especially in pitchers, but increasingly in position players as well. Mariano Rivera and Proctor were the only relievers established in the major leagues by Torre during his entire Yankees career. As (Edwar) Ramirez recently learned, if a reliever doesn't have five years experience in the bigs, he will sit and sit until Torre finds the right "situation" to use him. Said situation is usually defined as a game in which the Yankees are leading or trailing by 38 or more runs. Meanwhile, pitchers like Kyle Farnsworth, who are incompetent but have longer resumes, pitch game after game, with Torre blithely telling the press that he really thinks that Farnsworth, apparently still trying to figure out what it is he does well at 31, has finally turned a corner. He said it again on Sunday, just before Farnsworth was lit up by the Orioles.
This is where Chamberlain comes in. Torre has pledged to be careful with him if when the Yankees call him up. He has made similar pledges in the past with other relievers, though, and as soon as the Yankees get into a tight spot those pledges go quickly out the window.

This season, Torre has mangled his bullpen about as badly as he could have. He abused Proctor so badly that you have to feel good for Proctor that the Yankees sent him somewhere else. He continues to put Farnsworth into key situations, despite the ample evidence he can't handle them. He continues to rely on lefty specialist Mike Myers, even though lefties hit better than .300 against him. Meanwhile, the youthful Henn and his 96-mph fastball rot at the end of the bullpen.

Torre virtually refused to use Edwar Ramirez after the Yankees brought up the ballyhooed changeup specialist. After a two-week layoff Ramirez finally got into a blowout game. Predictably, he was awful and got optioned back to AAA.

Torre's track record says Chamberlain and his 98 mph fastball will either become one of "Joe's Guys" and pitch lots of key innings over the past two months, or he will rot while watching Farnsworth and Brian Bruney implode constantly.

Cashman is trying to turn the Yankees into a team that relies more on homegrown young players, particularly its young pitchers.

Chamberlain is a huge part of that change. He, phenom Phil Hughes and the 2006 No. 1 draft pick, Ian Kennedy, are looked at as guys who could be cornerstones of the Yankee rotation for many years to come.

There are also others knocking on the door and looking for an opportunity, like the changeup specialist Ramirez, Russ Ohlendorf, Chris Britton and Henn. Henn, of course, is on the roster but hardly ever gets to pitch. He is currently one of the "other guys."

Would you trust Torre to guide what will likely become a younger, more unproven pitching staff next season? I wouldn't.

This has to be Joe's last stand.

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11 comments:

Handride said...

So true, great article. Deserved the link. The one thing that kills me is when i hear Torre on the radio, like WFAN, and he's still on Farnsworth's bandwagon, even though Farnsworth has done everything but bitch slap Torre when he takes him out of the game to no longer be used. It's frustrating. I really liked Edwar, but what do you expect when they sit a reliever for 10 days. The thing that really pisses me off is every one of "joe's guys" loves walking the first batter.

ETVal said...

Edwar Ramirez is a guy who could possibly help this team. His stuff is so different with that change. But, Torre won't try to find out. That's why Karstens is on the team and Ramirez isn't. At least Torre knows Karstens' name and will put him in a game once in a while.

Redhead said...

I love Torre, for all the reasons you mentioned, but his bullpen management - which was never good - has gotten out of control in the past few years. I've watched him make choices that have driven me insane over and over again, and I've had enough. This year, for the first time, I'm finally able to not only accept, but look forward to, the day he's gone.

Bottom line: He's the wrong manager for a young and (in today's age of revenue sharing and other teams being able to afford to keep their homegrown talent) winning organization.

SlickBomb said...

At this point in time, the team must fire Joe Torre. There is really no way around it. The way he bungled the 2004 ALCS would have gotten any other manager canned, but he managed to stay on. 2006 was even worse with dropping A-Rod down in the lineup, playing Gary Sheffield/Matsui after a 5 month layoff, and benching Giambi, who was at that point the team's best hitter. If history is any indication, he'll screw it up again.

In the AL, bullpen management is the most important thing a manager can do. Torre has proven ineffective. He must go.

Anonymous said...

good story but man, that was about 300 words longer than it needed to be. Or maybe it's Friday and I'm tired.

ETVal said...

Dude, I know it was long -- maybe too long. I got started, though, and just couldn't hold back.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Joe Torre is just ahead of his time?

Relief pitchers are fungible commodities, useful ones can always be had. And, they tend to wear out quickly. So, it seems to me, if you find one that works, why wouldn't you use it till it broke. Worst case, just go get another arm. Best case, you have effective pitchers pitching in the highest leverage situations. Isn't that the point?

ETVal said...

Maybe so, but why use Vizcaino with a 6-run lead like he did a couple nights ago or Proctor with a 10-run lead, which he did a few nights before the Yankees dealt him? You use your best guys when the situation calls for it, but you can't use them every day regardless of the score just because they make you feel comfortable.

Anonymous said...

The hard-throwing righty [Scott Proctor] leads major league pitchers in innings over the past two seasons, ....

Huh?

Scott Proctor since 2006: 157 IP.

Randy "I've got a tattoo with a heart around the initials DL" Johnson since 2006: 261.2 IP.

Greg "I'm 50 years old" Maddux: 340.2 IP.

Roger "I don't play full seasons anymore" Clemens: 179.1 IP.

Pretty much every consistent starting pitcher in the majors: at least 250 IP.

Chad "Spot Starter" Billingsley since 2006: 169 IP.

Julian "Spot Starter" Tavarez: 204.2 IP.

Trust me, the list of major league pitchers with more than 157 IP over the past 2 years is very, very long.

Mike said...

Well, I think he meant major league relief pitchers. I'd believe 80 IP 2 years in a row would be close to leading the league out of the bullpen.

As a Phillies fan i've had to watch (or more accurately not watch) Tom Gordon struggle- another guy Torre overused. Of course Gordon has been pitching in the bigs for 18 years too, so that one's not all on Torre. And frustratingly Charlie Manuel seems to have taken lessons from Torre on bullpen management with Geary, Madson, and Myers (all injured this year).

Very good post. But i'd suggest dropping the "line through text" gag- that's pretty old.

Anonymous said...

Obviously he meant relief pitchers, the 8:44 comment is short bus material at it's best.